Suzy Cato on New Zealand Sign Language and her new show

The D*List sat down to chat with Suzy Cato about the inclusion of New Zealand Sign Language and te reo Māori in her new show You and Me Together. Listen to the podcast between Naketa Phillips and Suzy, or read the transcript below.

Naketa: Kia ora Suzy, thank you so much for coming into The D*List today. It's an absolute honour and privilege. I know a lot of my co-workers, my friends and family, they grew up watching you. So you're essentially a Kiwi icon.

Suzy: I don't know about a Kiwi icon, I just say a friend from way back.

Naketa: Yep, yeah, well, I definitely remember briefly watching you growing up. So I think you are a Kiwi icon in my eyes.

Suzy: Oh, wonderful. Well, if you watched me growing up, then maybe I should sing: It's our time, kia ora, talofa. It's our time, our special time of day, and it's a very special time of day. Thank you so much for having me.

Naketa: Oh, thank you. But anyway, before we get started, I just want to give a quick 'ko wai au' just because I think the incorporation of New Zealand Sign Language and your new show is just so special to us and to me personally. So ko wai au, my name is Naketa Phillips. I whakapapa to East Coast, so Rongowhakaata and Whakatōhea.

I was born Deaf, but received a cochlear implant at 18 months. I grew up in a hearing world, not being exposed to sign language or the Deaf community. And I guess my passion is about advocating for New Zealand Sign Language and really exposing it. Because I think you know, this new generation need to connect with the Deaf community and just have more awareness and yeah.

Suzy: And be as inclusive as possible.

Naketa: Yeah for sure. Well, before we introduce you, do you have a sign name?

Suzy: Look, I was given a sign name many, many years ago, and then recently, more recently, I was given another one. I'm rather forgetful, and because I'm not using it all the time. Yeah. They say it's like riding a bike. You can just step into it, but you actually need to use it all the time.

Naketa: Oh, you do. You need to remember.

Suzy: So I've been gifted a name. I think I've been actually gifted two over the decades and decades that I've been around. But, I understand I've been gifted a new name.

Naketa: Yes, so Jon from the Deaf community absolutely loved watching you grow up, when he was growing up. Yeah. And I want to show you the video, and we can do your sign name.

Suzy: Hello, Jon.

Suzy: Remembers watching me on the TV. It would have been 4 or 5.

Suzy: He looked up to me intently.

Naketa: Suzy.

Suzy: So with the big glasses.

Naketa: Yeah. So you can, I guess you can be like: my name is Suzy.

Suzy: Okay. Yeah, my name is Suzy.

Naketa: And let me introduce you, my sign name too. My name is Naketa.

Suzy: Naketa?

Naketa: Yeah. Naketa.

Suzy: Long hair?

Naketa: Yeah. You knew! Yeah. Yeah. No, that was literally, Alex like I asked my Deaf friend like, why is it Naketa? And she was like, oh, because of your beautiful big. And I was like, amazing. I was going to say

Suzy: If it wasn't, it was the beautiful big eyes or the smile or something like that.

Naketa: Thank you. So it would have been like Naketa.

Suzy: Yeah, yeah. Eyelashes.

Naketa: Yeah. Yeah.

Suzy: Flutter flutter.

Naketa: Yeah, I feel like that could have been my other sign name. Yeah, yeah.

Suzy: Can you have more than one sign name?

Naketa: I know that people have, like, kind of transitioned to different sign names. Yeah. I've just only ever had that one. So that was my gift. Yeah. You have to be gifted it from someone in the Deaf community.

Suzy: Oh, wonderful. Well I need to find out those other names then, because if they're being gifted to me, then I should really remember them. But yeah, my forgettery works better than my memory these days.

Naketa: I mean, you're doing so much, it’s so cool.

Suzy: Yeah. The last few months have been absolutely amazing.

Naketa: So, Suzy, can you introduce a little bit about yourself, your sign name, your new sign name, and a little bit about your show?

Suzy: Sure. My name is Suzy, and my new show is also my old show. It's called You and Me. And this one is You and Me together. So the slight difference is that we are now, 28 years later, making another new series. So, very, very exciting.

Naketa: So how does it feel to be bringing back the show and what can we expect?

Suzy: Okay, well, I'm so excited about it. And it's such an honour to have been gifted the copyright. Basically, the ownership has transferred to me to be able to make this program again from the original creator who said that I done such a good job of honouring the mahi all those years ago and still continuing to make kids content all these years later.

I've got YouTube channels and kids radio shows and podcasts and things like that, and do a lot of mahi around the country with kids. So, he said he would be more than happy for me to make the program again. And because it was such a good format that had been created by preschool educators, for preschoolers, we've kept it very similar.

So what you will see is that when we finished making You and Me all those years ago, we sold the house literally, they auctioned off all the contents from the house, and packed it away. And so we've built a new house. And so the colours are a little bit different. And I don't get too wear cosmic because it's not available anymore.

The bright, the bright, bright clothing. Don't worry the clothing is still very bright. I do have a few little Easter eggs, little surprises around the set from my 30 year career in television. So there's little things like if you remember this before you were born. The Early Bird Show with Russell Rooster in 1990. So the Early Bird Show with Russell Rooster.

We used to give away little Russell Rooster toys. Okay, keep an eye out for that. And you keep an eye out for Mo from the Mo Show and various other little elements from my career, but also from other children's programs.

Naketa: That's so cool. Yeah. So unique and very exciting. So children's media has really, you know, shaped the way people grow up and normalising language. And You and Me really helped bring in, you know, te reo Māori to our screens. So why was it important for you to incorporate it then?

Suzy: It was really important. I was fortunate to be a part of You and Me. They were, it was already going. There had been a previous presenter other than me, for You and Me. Pauline Cooper was the first presenter of You and Me, and I when I came in, we changed the set a little bit and, we never saw any of Pauline's programs again, her episodes. So the format was the, the use of te reo was all there. So my executive producer had grown up in the Far North as had I, and he had parents who were both teachers, and he was immersed in the culture up there and being Pākehā like me he didn't know why we weren't seeing that on the screens.

So he'd made a lot of kids content over the years. And when he got to make You and Me and to reflect Kiwi kids properly, he said, we could include te reo Māori. They employed an amazing chap who was our cultural advisor, and he guided me through that. And sometimes my English because, hey, I'm a Kiwi and my diction can give it a bit hōhā.

Naketa: So, you know, I yeah, sometimes my pronunciation, even though I, you know, tangata whenua, I still struggle with like pronouncing some of the yeah words. Yeah I feel like it's, but it's like I think it's become so much more like common and more normalised and I think it's sort of started with your show, you know, being exposed to it. I think it's more you're exposed to.

Suzy: Exactly and conversational te reo. So short sentences, short phrases and things that kids would use a lot, like all the colours and the and the numbers and shapes and all those sorts of things. I learned with the child because I'm certainly not fluent. I learnt with the child. And with this series we are now including NZSL. New Zealand Sign Language.

Suzy: Again I'm learning with the child.

Naketa: Yay!

Suzy: Again I'm learning with the child.

Naketa: Yeah. And what does that kind of look like in the new series? Yeah. What does it look like for incorporating sign language? I'm so excited because, you know, people at home are going to be like growing up watching this, which is going to be so cool.

Suzy: So the same as with our te reo Māori, we just include it in general conversation. And occasionally we point out because if it's a particular sign, maybe it's a little less obvious, we might say, do you know the sign for and then we use that sign. But often we just use it as if it's everyday conversation and everyday life.

Naketa: That’s so cool. I'm so excited. I'm actually going to watch an episode because- I'm actually going to watch the whole series. Yes, because I want to yeah.

Suzy: Yeah, we haven't incorporated it in every episode. Yeah. Sometimes the action songs in particular can be quite confusing because we're using actions that aren't actually signs. So you can't then throw a sign in, well, we don't believe you can throw a sign in, throw a sign and you include a sign in there as well as doing actions. So it was a bit confusing. So we’re just adding it as it feels appropriate.

Naketa: Yeah. No, that's so cool. And yeah, I'm hoping that the next generation grow up watching you and being able to sign, because in the Deaf community, there’s a lot of like communication barriers. And yeah, I feel like the more exposure we have to sign language, the better. Oh definitely. Yeah, no, thank you for incorporating that. I think it's so cool.

Suzy: My pleasure. I mean, for parents to be introducing sign language to their children is a great way for those little ones to be able to communicate when they, when they want more or, you know, they've had enough or, you know, those sorts of things. When little ones can't communicate the best way for their communication to be shared is just through anger, for crying and things like that. So if they're given a chance to be able to talk and communicate, it just makes it so much easier for everybody.

Naketa: Oh for sure. Yeah. And I think because they're slowly developing and, you know, vision is what they can see, so you like more. And then you're like, yeah. Then they can learn those signs.

Suzy: They pick it up so quickly.

Naketa: Oh they do. Yeah. It's like the brain's a sponge.

Suzy: Oh yeah.

Naketa: The brain’s a sponge.

Suzy: Well look, they're turning 58 this year. I like to think that my brain is still a sponge too.

Naketa: So I think it's still a sponge, you just believe it's still a sponge. That's so cool. That's so exciting. So when did you, like, start learning sign language or when did you start becoming more aware? Was that with your mum's hearing loss or like, what did that look like for you in terms of sign language?

Suzy: Yeah, we learned a little bit for the first series of You and Me, but not very much. Yeah. And obviously been aware of it, but I don't have, didn't have anybody in my close circle of friends or community that was using it regularly. So, I guess when the, the level of need is when you are communicating regularly with somebody, somebody like myself should have learnt it long before now, because then I'd be able to communicate with the wider community.

But, yeah, it's, it's something that I've been meaning to do. And now I'm making a concerted effort because you can include so many more people and, and reach a community that, you know, has been quite isolated for so long.

Naketa: Yeah. Well you have to come with me to the Deaf Club. I'm happy to take you.

Suzy: Wonderful.

Naketa: What is the incorporation of te reo Māori and this new season? Do you find that you're going to have more than back in the day or is that just going to be-

Suzy: It'll be very similar. Yeah. And conversational. So, there are so many more programs now for those that are more fluent in te reo Māori who are further down that journey. Yeah. Yeah. There's a whole channel dedicated, Māori Television. So it's a way, again of incorporating for those that haven't spoken Māori before, to feel confident and comfortable with peppering their conversation with a few words and a few phrases.

Naketa: So what do you hope for parents that grew up watching you? What do you hope to get from them sharing your new show?

Suzy: We've already had some feedback from some of the people who have been helping us create the program. Yeah, with their children, little toddlers who are watching the program and who are interacting and joining and just as they did when they were children. So that's been really really exciting. But what I love is that it's, it's like a hug.

It's like for me stepping into that studio was a sense of coming home. So I would love to think that those kids are now but kids are coming home. They're coming back to Aunty Suzy’s place. They come in for a kōrero and just a nice comfortable, relaxing time. They're not going to have their senses assaulted by noise and all the rest of it.

And those kids are now giving an opportunity, being given an opportunity to connect with Aunty Suzy and just have a nice quiet time as well. Kids are heading off to school and preschool with a very reduced vocabulary.

Naketa: Yeah.

Suzy: So to be able to have that conversation, to encourage taking turns and listening and encourage reading. One thing we do is we've got a lot more guests sitting in a chair reading, holding a book and reading it, and guests of all ages. So it's really important that, kids are seeing the book and that, you know, ‘coming to join me for a story this is such a good book’, you know, and our readers are amazing.

So and there’s songs, lots of music and dance and movement and rhythm and, and things like that, all things that kids thrive on, that make us feel good. And release those endorphins just naturally. And it's that whole feel good factor. I feel like I've been hugged making an episode of You and Me. And that's what I would hope everybody who watches feels as well.

Naketa: I'm sure they will. And it will definitely be just so cool to like, watch you again. After almost 30 years.

Suzy: Yeah, well, I've never really gone away. I've got three YouTube channels now. Yeah. And the radio shows and so on. And I do a lot of live appearances, live performances. So what I love is that when there are, babies in the audience, you know, that they're there for mum and dad, not for the little one, hasn't got a clue to what's going on as they're fast asleep the entire time. It's there for mum and dad, are there for them for that heart connection, which is so special.

Naketa: How does that feel for, like, doing it on, like, a whole different platform? Because I remember back in the day, I used to have to, like, whenever watching a show, you have to be there at the time.

Suzy: Yeah. Unless your mum or dad had, a VHS player and put the blank tape in and would record, and then you could have hours and hours of You and Me. But, it's quite different because it's on YouTube. The whole idea with YouTube, it's such a mine of information and great content and absolute rubbish. So the idea is to put some great content on for kids that reflects them and their families.

Suzy: And it doesn't just entertain, it educates as well. Yeah. By osmosis you learn by osmosis, just like you did with Suzy’s World.

Naketa: So, Suzy, how can people watch You and Me Together?

Suzy: Okay, so for a start off it's on our YouTube channel, You and Me NZ every Saturday morning for the next 25 weeks, 10am. But of course, that's where it's going to premiere each week. Each week it'll premiere there and then it will be there for you to view as many times as you like, as often as you like.

We also have our website, YouandMe.nz and there we're going to be putting added resources and I'm going to to work with some fabulous folk, maybe like yourself, so that I can support those episodes that we put up with extra sign language so that people can go and practice because we it's only a 30 minute episode, and you use the sign a couple of times.

It would be great to reinforce why that sign is the sign that it is, why it would be really good to use it with you for your children and to share it within your community. So we're putting up lots of added resources there.

Naketa: Amazing well, I can't wait to can't wait to watch your episode.

Suzy: Thank you very much.

Naketa: Thank you.